ang*e ([info]watchyourmouth) wrote,
@ 2007-04-17 23:02:00
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Current mood: irritated
Entry tags:"clueless idiot presenter", "jay bhatti", spock, spock.com

Spock.com is full of misogynists
Disclaimer: The following is the personal opinion of my own written on my personal blog, not a reflection of the collective opinion of Women 2.0

Kathy Sierra was silenced by death threats to her blog on "Creating Passionate Users". Then Don Imus was fired for comments about "nappy-headed hos".


I was working at the Web 2.0 Expo in San Francisco yesterday and heard from MANY women who visited the Women 2.0 booth that Spock.com had offended them personally, I asked a Spock.com guy about it. He then reminded me that Spock.com was giving Women 2.0 a sponsorship for our upcoming event and gave me a look as he left that basically said "shove it".

A member of the Systers community (a mailing list founded by the Anita Borg Institute for women and technology) recounted what had happened.

Systers,

I was wondering if any of you were at the Web 2.0 expo at San Francisco
yesterday attending the keynote by Jeff Bezos? Right after the keynote,
there was a launchpad session where 3 new start-ups launched their product
officially in front of the audience. One of the products was a new search
engine that can be used to search for people: www.spock.com

The founder and CEO Jay Bhatti made a very compelling pitch that had me
raring to give the site a whirl until he stuck his foot in his mouth. The
first search he demonstrated for the audience was for "bloggers". For the
next search, he said he wanted to make it more interesting, and asked the
audience (mixed audience, 16,000+ mostly tech. crowd) whether they would
like to search for Swimsuit illustrated models or for Victoria's secret
models!! Folks in the front voted for VS it seems, so he went ahead and used
his search engine to pull up Victoria's Secret models on the multiple big
screens for the crowd. The women standing next to me were disgusted, and
walked out literally calling him an idiot.



I personally found it offensive and idiotic, considering research has shown
that women are more likely than men to search for specific people and faces.
Where he would not do a search for Australian beef cake for the audience,
why should it be ok to search for VS models at a tech. conference well
attended by women, who are well represented in the blogsphere? Did any of
the other attendees get equally irritated? On the one hand, we are worried
about hate crimes against women bloggers and here is a guy who searches for
swimsuit models at the big launching event for his company at a tech.
conference! Wow, how dense can he get?

-Shuba

If there's not already a voice in my head that screams "misogyny", check this comment on a post about Spock.com at Tim O'Reilly's blog.
"Spock is a great way to get laid. Seriousy. Just enter "slutty whore" and
look at the results. You could bang any one of those skanks, especially my
ex-wife."
That comment either escaped moderation from ignorance or misogyny. Either way, it should be addressed. Someone else suggested writing to Spock.com and its investors, Clearstone Venture Partners and Opus Capital. That's a fine idea. I've spent the last 2.5 years of my working life at startups without HR and I think engineering/male-dominated startups kinda need it. They also need more diversity on their teams, starting with hiring more women.

Little zings to women whether online or on the radio or in person should always be called out, brought to light, and extinguished. What is that smell in the air?

Spock.com's brilliant idea to publicly perform a search for scantily-clad Victoria's Secret models was projected onto multiple big screens at a large conference hall is a social faux paus because it offended many women in the audience --- I don't care if Spock.com has an amazing product, to read rave product reviews on their service, for the email the Spock.com CEO sent me as an apology. I still feel dirty that this happened in front of hundreds of attendees in broad daylight, and that women who speak out against bad taste are being called feminists and considered to be in hysterics. Wait a second. I don't think I'm the one exercising bad taste and testosterone-laden immaturity here.

Next time you do a search for lingerie or swimsuit models during a demo, you better run a search for beefcakes next. Seriously.



I call this "the minority picture" -- four women and one black guy at Web 2.0 Expo?! Amazing.





Annie, Shivani, and I womanning the Women 2.0 booth





Rachel Cook, founder of Minti.com with Annie. Rachel is an inspiration.




(Post a new comment)


[info]learninghorses.myopenid.com
2007-04-18 10:01 pm UTC (link)
I'm sorry I missed your both, I would have joined you in lamenting the idocity of those spock jerks.

I would like to ask the guy giving the presentation this. . .if you were giving this demo to your mother, is this the search option you would have given her?

(Reply to this)

Blah
[info]omouse.vox.com
2007-04-18 11:03 pm UTC (link)
They can't hire more women unless those women apply for a job. And I guess not many are applying. Or if they are they might not be up to their standards.

You can't just hire women just to make your company politically correct which is what I think your statement implies.

(Reply to this)


[info]burnunit
2007-04-19 12:20 am UTC (link)
I really really wish I'd seen the Women 2.0 booth! I got expo fatigue/blindness or something. Gosh.

I think one point I would have liked to say on Sunday night (as the speaker of the obviously-unpopular diversity presentation at Ignite) is that in the next 10 years, it is as predictable as rain that organizations which are more strategic and intentional about diversity and inclusion will outperform those that do not.

So I do believe that presenters who offer up blatantly backward and offensive presentations represent the mainstream/broad middle class (the muddle crass as McLuhan might have said) of present state of the industry. While also being The Thoroughly Doomed.

We spent four days chatting up the disruptive impact of these things, the speed--and acceleration of these network-media effects, etc etc. So it's sad the way they laugh this stuff off. It's not the least bit sad the way they behave--I found Spock's launchpad completely offensive.

I truly believe what's needed is for companies to build inclusive cultures and change those behaviors. AND that goes for conference organizations, ultimately.

There needs to be intentional, proactive outreach to change. The passive approach will not do. It is not good enough to say "well, we're open to everyone, if the women want to come, they can come" or "we don't discriminate against people." Of course they don't, possibly not in any intentionally illegal way, but the impact of countenancing this behavior is a blatant self-contradiction of this supposed "openness" and "meritocracy."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

fyi, o'reilly comment wasn't by tim... it was a troll.
(Anonymous)
2007-04-19 03:52 pm UTC (link)
[full disclosure: i am an advisor for Spock]

angie -

i fully respect you had a very negative reaction to the demo, however i believe the comment you posted above from Tim's blog was not presented in its full context. people could have mistakenly gotten the impression from your post that it was from tim, or from someone who was not challenged by others in the comments (like me, immediately following the comment in question).

to me, using that comment as evidence to make a connection to your impressions about spock would seem to be a strech. there are plenty of trolls about, and their misbehavior or inappropriate comments and attitudes aren't indictments of the service or blogs they happen to leave their comments upon, imho.

in any case, however you decide to reference the comment & draw conclusions, i think it would be fair to let your readers see the whole conversation in context. the comment has now been edited out by folks at O'Reilly, but the full article & comment thread is here:
http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/04/why_im_so_excit.html

again, i'm sorry if you or others were offended by part of the demo. and i do understand there's been a lot of vitriol thrown around related to the Kathy Sierra situation. however, i personally don't believe the two events are connected in the way you mention. still, i respect your right to express your strong opinions.

regards,

- dave mcclure
http://500hats.typepad.com

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: fyi, o'reilly comment wasn't by tim... it was a troll.
[info]watchyourmouth
2007-04-19 05:03 pm UTC (link)
I had linked the quote to the thread, I believe. Maybe the blue color and underlined nature of that quote wasn't enough for some people. And the words "check out this comment on a post at Tim O'Reilly's blog" aren't enough to elucidate that it was NOT Tim but a commenter.

It's hard for me to believe so many people are so terrified of the simple word "misogyny". I guess going to a liberal college and receiving an undergraduate degree in SOCIAL WELFARE (and here I thought the Bay Area was supposed to be liberal, like UC Berkeley) gave me the impression that words like "misogyny", and pointing out what I thought was bad taste using that word, really did adversely affect some people. The word absolutely terrifies people. Disclaimer: I discovered Le Tigre in college, and sometimes I forget that what is "highly political" seems merely common in my environs, but is "highly political" to other people so I need to be more cognizant of that.

Suddenly, I have a new respect for social media. I never gave it proper respect before. The opinion of one woman in tech suddenly got a lot of people buzzing. Moving forward, I will consider the reach of my words and the range of social/political opinions of the Silicon Valley Netizens which are interpreting my stated opinion.

Thanks for your opinion Dave, and I hope we can all move forward as more informed, educated people about issues. I know I have.

Best,

Angie Chang

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: fyi, o'reilly comment wasn't by tim... it was a troll.
(Anonymous)
2007-04-19 05:32 pm UTC (link)
>>I had linked the quote to the thread, I believe.
>>Maybe the blue color and underlined nature of that quote wasn't enough for some people.

aha... missed that. i saw other links underlined, didn't realize that one was also a link. my mistake.

>>hope we can all move forward as more informed, educated people about issues.

ditto. i know i spoke to several folks afterwards, and i also have a different/new perspective on it. thanks :)

- dave

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: fyi, o'reilly comment wasn't by tim... it was a troll.
[info]nobodyreally
2007-04-19 09:22 pm UTC (link)
"ever heard of the phrase "OVER-sharing" is a challenge? oh please!

btw, I note the lack of disclosure of your professional ties to Spock here... tacky...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: fyi, my disclosure is at the top of my first comment.
(Anonymous)
2007-04-19 11:16 pm UTC (link)
>> note the lack of disclosure of your professional ties to Spock here.

um, are you kidding me? it was the VERY FIRST thing i put in my first comment on this blog (and on Tim's blog, and on TechCrunch, and on my own blog in several places). i've gone overboard on almost every place i post to FULLY DISCLOSE that relationship at the top of each post.

my apologies if i don't RE-list it in every comment on the same thread, however you might want to read more carefully before you "j'accuse".

see:
http://watchyourmouth.livejournal.com/203514.html?thread=282874#t282874

- dm

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: fyi, my disclosure is at the top of my first comment.
[info]nobodyreally
2007-04-20 04:10 am UTC (link)
Dave, actually I had two versions of the same comment. One with the note on lack of disclosure and another with just the first line (I rescanned the thread) but apparently the wrong one got deleted. Sorry.

However, my first comment stands. The response that Fred got was not a challenge in any real sense of the word.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: fyi, my disclosure is at the top of my first comment.
[info]badgerbag
2007-04-20 01:41 am UTC (link)
By all means run to protect some guy from any hint of not moderating his comments and make it all about him. This neatly hijacks the whole discussion about misogyny. It evades responsibility for the offensive action in the first place. Many, many women in tech have been talking about issues of sexism, the objectification of women, and specifically about conferences and diversity at conferences. Angie is not having a "strong opinion" alone, she is one of many of us who have been speaking up to say we would like women to be discussed in tech and professional environments as competent, thinking human beings. NOT in relation to their appearance or their status as sex objects.

Women keep saying this over and over - together and individually. When the response is to treat this as an individual quirk, you are not listening.

Whoever did the demo screwed up royally and should say so.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: fyi, o'reilly comment wasn't by tim... it was a troll.
[info]burnunit
2007-04-20 03:40 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I really was replying to what I read here and hadn't seen the conversation Dave linked to. I also appreciate Dave's disclosure bit, actually.

Seriously though. Dave, you're an adviser, right? Didn't it come up in prepping a demo of this for ten thousand people or whatever that someone might have felt a negative impact? No one pushed back on this? "Is there any other way we could show the strengths of this tool?"

Bear with me on this example: listening to comments on other sessions people were just blown away by the raw demographics stuff Technorati and Hitwise did on Tuesday. What might have been some dry recitation of data was completely gripping and cool--"we have analysis from 70 million data points"--that's pretty cool and I left feeling totally grown up. Couldn't Spock have showed us something that was gripping and cool without making us feel like dirty little boys?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]badgerbag
2007-04-20 01:30 am UTC (link)
Oh for fuck's sake. Wish I'd been there, in order to walk out along with you.

(Reply to this)

systers note
[info]badgerbag
2007-04-20 01:50 am UTC (link)
Though - I just realized you quoted an email from systers - I hope with permission as quoting from there without it is against the list's rules...

cheers -

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: systers note
[info]watchyourmouth
2007-04-20 03:29 am UTC (link)
Totally got slapped on the wrist by Systers for that, but made amends to the moderators, et al. Systers is a great community, as is SF-WOW. I wish there was a better way to move our conversations into the public eye so that they can be found via search engine to broaden the reach of some of the really interesting discussions that occur on those email lists.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: systers note
[info]badgerbag
2007-04-20 07:08 am UTC (link)

I am very happy that the closed list exists and have felt more at home there than anywhere. Not everyone is in agreement of course on there but it's still so amazing and gives me a lot of private feeling of strength and solidarity. The stories of discrimination and struggle and harassment and then the ways people have found to deal with that, and the very good level headed advice often given, blow me away on there. Also on linuxchix-grrls-only. I don't think I'm on SF-WOW, I should check them out.

People are afraid it will hurt them professionally to speak up and say what they actually think and experience as women and as feminists, and they are right that it's scary and real. I think we need to move those discussions as best we can to the public sphere, though. What if we start another list that is women only for posting, but readable by anyone?

From Twisty Faster, "Some Notes on Revolution"...

"Do we seriously think she can take down the dominant culture by “standing up” to it, with only a few wan ‘you go, girls’ from the sidelines to mark the occasion? Without a revolution to back her up, all the whup-ass in the world will only get her locked up."

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]heisinmyeyes
2007-05-10 02:14 am UTC (link)
http://www.slate.com/id/2165654/pagenum/2/

(Reply to this)

Spock.com is full of misogynists
(Anonymous)
2007-06-18 12:40 pm UTC (link)
I'm a bit late coming to this discussion, but I can't believe those who would make excuses for the content of this demo, and I, too, wish I could have been there to walk out (although if I see many more things like this, I think my head is going to explode).

Sexism is, apparently, the last acceptable prejudice--and it's a prejudice against over 50% of the population! If the search had been for "funny pictures of f@ggy guys" or "Ku Klux Klan chapters," there would have been universal outrage--and rightly so. Somehow, though, people are blind to the ways that women are used to sell everything, and are constantly being exploited by mass media. One can definitely get into a discussion of why some women participate in this exploitation, but that's a different story, perhaps akin to the story of pioneering African American actors who were willing to play stereotypical characters in order to blaze a much-needed trail. Either way, objectification of human beings is extraordinarily offensive to me--no matter who they are.

I'll be sticking with Google.

Coleen

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